Fira-AER

Scott Robertson will be the head coach for the South American Championship

So was Camardon dumped or is he still in the picture? I'd be surprised as I thought he was making good progress with the team and culturally, the Argentinians probably understand the Brazilian players better than the NZ coaches. And that cultural thing can be important in getting the players to better understand and develop. Miscommunication and misunderstanding can make progress difficult. I don't have a problem with NZ coaches going to Brazil (and infact it's quite exciting that some NZers have had the vision to see that Brazil has potential) but I'd rather see them working in tandem with a top Argentinian coach than taking over. I just see Sth American team improving more with spanish-speaking coaches from the same region.

I also think Argentina could play a larger role in upping rugby's strength and popularity in Spain and I can't understand why with many players in France, they haven't taken the opportunity to play a game in Madrid or Barcelona. A few years ago, they played one of their "home" games v England at Old Trafford. That game to me would have been perfect to host in Spain, or one of their games v France or Italy would also have been a perfect opportunity.

Sorry to go off topic and talk about Argentina's role in Sth American and Spanish rugby development rather than that of the thread!

YK, Toto Carmardon was dumped just after Emirates Cup of Nations.

It's true that Toto got better results then the previous coach, Pierre Paparemborde, French, but the conditions provided to Toto were much better. If we compare Paparemborde with the previous coach, Antonio Martoni, Brazilian, the difference was not so big. But we must say: both Camardon and Paparemborde were able to speak Portuguese, and the New Zealanders can't speak a word. So, let's wait.

That's sad to hear about Camardon. I think he should've been given more time. Even if you've got more resources the results don't become wonderful overnight. was Camardon also the 7s coach? If so, maybe that also explains Brazil's worse results this year. Anyway, I just hope the CBRu doesn't think the Kiwi coaches can wave a magic wand and Brazil will become instant champions!

No, Sevens coach is Maurício Coelho, a young Brazilian coach (he still plays with Vale, São José's 2nd XV)

Brazil's richest football club, Corinthians, are forming a rugby team. They seem to have more than social ambitions, stating that they see rugby and the fastest growing sport in Brazil and aim to develop international players.

Link

The biggest problem is that Corinthians does'nt want to begin in lower divisions and won't put money in junior rugby. It's a purely comercial action, and for me it is still a mistery how it will work. The other big football club that is investing in rugby is Vasco da Gama, but they are working just with junior rugby.

The other problem is that it is Corinthians (and I support Palmeiras :p)

During the 80s, Palmeiras and São Paulo FC had good rugby teams, but it lasted a few years.

Between now and the 80s, rugby became a pro sport, so a comercial activity. I really hope money guys will rule Brazil rugby and impose a national comercial league and don't take the wrong path that Argentina took. Brazil like to do the opposite of Argentina, so that mustn't be a problem.

But which country has the bigger population and therefore guaranteed RWC third-place play-off rights?

Oh, wait...

I have to say victor I don't have a problem with it being a commercial entity (ie pro club). Let's be honest. Without professional players you don't have a chance of getting to tier one in this sport. You might with an outstanding generation of players and a good coach get to the RWC but you will get spanked everytime. An amateur team, no matter how well trained, cannot compete with a top professional team like NZ, Aust, Fra etc You only have to look at Portugal. What they achieved in 2007 was remarkable but without a professional player base that will be as good as it gets for them.

The more pro players you have the better your team will become and the better in depth it will become. If Brazil wants to sit with NZ, England, Sth Africa or even Argentina etc it has two options. Either it has heaps of players playing professionally in other countries (Arg, Geo etc) or it creates its own pro clubs (preferable because there is more control over player availablity - see all the remarks over the squads of Geo, Pac Is countries etc for their June internationals).

There are other pro football clubs with amateur rugby sections around the world (Barcelona FC, Eintracht Frankfurt, Hamburg SV etc) but they have failed to generate a real step up in the rugby level of their respective countries. If Barcelona was tomorrow to professionalise its rugby section that would be a huge spark for Spanish rugby.

I do agree with you regarding junior rugby. If they want to start in the top echelons in Brazil it should be part of any agreement that running a junior academy is mandatory and that should be a key point for the CBRu in any negotiations with the club.

Finally, I much prefer Palmeiras as well (I was surprised to hear that they had a rugby section in the 80s) but there is nothing stopping them from starting, or reactivating, a rugby team or section. On Vasco de Gama, if they don't have a senior team, a team to feed their juniors into, then that's just as bad as Corinthians not having a junior team. There has to be somewhere for junior players to go, and that should always be your own senior team if you want to become a strong club. Otherwise where is the pay-off on the investment in training the young kids? lastly, for once I agree with Olivier. Rugby has changed a lot since the 1980s. It's now a professional game. Even the formerly staunchly amateur Argentinian union has acknowledged that. If they'd carried on in their old ways, Argentina would have been far away from the results they have achieved at the last two RWCs.

Brazil has the economic power and population to have pro rugby clubs and a pro league as they do in other sports. Having pro rugby in Brazil, as long as it's properly set up and run, should be welcomed by the Brazilian and world rugby fraternity.

1st Copa Norte de Rugby http://www.portaldorugby.com.br/noticia ... se-feriado

On this weekend 4 clubs from the Amazon Region are playing the first XV-a-side Northern Brazil Cup! There are 3 clubs from Amazonas state (GRUA, Korubos and Parintins) and 1 club from Rondônia (Porto Velho). The champions will be awarded a place in Copa do Brasil (national 2nd division). Now, all the regions have a XV-a-side competition

More good news victor It was noticeable in the Brazil squad for the CONSUR A champs there were a number of clubs represented not just from a few. Again with so many new clubs and new players talent ID is one of the biggest challenges for the CBRu. I hope they get better at it than England who on rugby population should be a hell of a lot better than they are and should never need to use players from other countries as they are. I might be proved wrong, but somehow given the athletic and sports skill reputation of Brazil I don't think they will have need for a centre of Maori or Samoan extraction!

Brazil Super 10 ready to start from next weekend with the final on the 29th September.
2012 teams and pools

Group Yellow: Sao Jose (Sao Paulo-2011 champs), Pasteur (SP, just beat Sao Jose in SP Final), Desterro (Santa Catarina), Farrapos (Rio Grande do Sul), and Belo Horizonte(Minas Gerais).
Group Green: Bandeirantes (SP-2011 ru), SPAC (SP), Rio Branco(SP), Niteroi(Rio de Janeiro), and Curitiba Unibrasil/CRC(Parana)

Also looks like Emirates Cup is on again this year. The CBRu competitions page shows it being on from December 7th to 15th. There's also a mens XV friendly international match set down for Sept 7th but no mention of the oppostion. Maybe it will be Canterbury doing a warm-up for the ITM Cup

2012 Copa do Brasil - Brazil's 2nd division - will begin on July 14th with the final on Sept. 22nd. On Oct. 6th there will be the reelgation/promotion match betwen Copa do Brasil champions and Super 10 10th.

It will be a knockout competition with 8 clubs, qualified from the regional and state championships.

Quarter-finals

QF1 - Copa Brasil Central champs (Goianos RC, from Goiânia, Goiás) VS Copa Norte champs (GRUA, from Manaus, Amazonas)
QF2 - Liga Nordeste champs (TBD on Jul 30th - Maranhão RC, from São Luis, Maranhão, or Potiguar RC, from Natal, Rio Grande do Norte) VS Rio de Janeiro State representative (Guanabara RFC, from Rio de Janeiro)
QF3 - São Paulo State representative (Tornados Indaiatuba RC, from Indaiatuba) VS Paraná representative (Londrina Rugby, from Londrina)
QF4 - Rio Grande do Sul representative (Charrua RC, from Porto Alegre) VS Santa Catarina representative (BC Rugby, from Balneário Camboriú)

PS: It is not yet clear (and I can't understand) why Minas Gerais won't have a representative. Today Minas Gerais final was played between Belo Horizonte and Varginha (BH won 45 v 22). Varginha RC is a former 2nd division champion and should receive one place in Copa do Brasil. CBRu awarded just one place for a "South East" club, to be decided betwen Rio de Janeiro, Minas Gerais and Espírito Santo states (Espirito Santo championship has not yet begun), but they have confirmed Guanabara for this place...

Two big news about Brazil:

First, this has been out for some days but no one has posted it so I will. The CBRu and Crusaders and canterbury RFU, NZ have inked a deal for the later to assist the former till 2017.

CBRu media release thru Google translate:

***CBRu and Crusaders Franchise Limited (Crusaders) conclude the contract with effect from 2012 to 2017
Crusaders and CRFU CBRu make available to qualified full-time coaches and technicians to assist visitors planning and implementation of the high yield of CBRu***

The Brazilian Confederation of Rugby (CBRu), the Crusaders Franchise Limited (Crusaders) and the Federation of Rugby Canterbury (Canterbury Rugby Football Union - Incorporated - "CRFU") are pleased to announce the signing of a contract with effect from 2012 to 2017 through which Crusaders and CRFU CBRu make available to qualified full-time coaches and technicians to assist visitors planning and implementation of the high yield of CBRu including but not limited to, the identification and training and preparing athletes for international competitions, aiming building competitive teams for the Olympics in Rio in 2016 and the future

Sami Arap, President of CBRu commented that "Brazil has the ambition to join a select group of the best rugby teams in the world, and create competitive teams for 2016 and to qualify for a World Cup Rugby. We are focused in long-term relationships. the country got so successful, build competitive teams in all collective sports and rugby is not the exception. Support for high performance is vital ingredient to the success and sustainability. We are really happy with the alliance Crusaders / CRFU and eager to learn the key skills physical, mental, personal and professional athletes needed to create successful rugby. "

Hamish Riach, Crusaders chief executive officer of CRFU and commented that CBRu has ambitious goals with which CRFU and Crusaders are eager to contribute. "We are interested in working with CBRu order to help them develop their high performance program. His goal to become competitive in 2016 and classify a team to a World Cup Rugby in the future are admirable and we applaud the planning long-term CBRu. Assist the development of high performance rugby in Brazil certainly will generate benefits for the rugby world. "

Secondly, blog Portal do Rugby reports that CONSUR released the decision for next year's CONSUR A. It will be played at the Charrua Stadium in Montevideo, Uruguay. The format will be the same as this year with ARG, URU, CHI and the winner of BRA v CONSUR B champs playing a round robin.

Chile proposed making it a Home or away championship but the proposal was voted down as it would double the current costs.

Victor
I see the Copa do Brazil has Guanabara v a Minas Gerais team but it's not Varginha. Also last year's defending champs Ilhabela from SP aren't included. I see for some reason they finished last in the Paulista B division but there is an * next to their name. What happened?